Mannequin Pussy’s Missy Dabice talks rolling with change, chasing your vision, and the pandemic pressure that led to Perfect

The world missed Mannequin Pussy.

Their breakout 2019 album Patience captured the place between anger and longing that characterized the past few years, shifting between tight hardcore anthems like “F.U.CA.W.” and more pop-adjacent tracks like “Drunk II.” The Perfect EP, out today, nails that balance once again, within five tracks getting at the most carnal of emotions that feels so difficult to convey most times; something that made their live shows so much more gratifying to attend was the ability to let that all go in a crowd of shared intensity.

Their first music video for the latest EP summarized the frustration of the past year: bandleader Missy Dabice sitting in a cramped and isolated room, drawing weapons like swords and axes to trash the place before setting it on fire while singing “Something’s in your eye,” over and over again. Dabice spoke with The Key over Zoom to discuss shooting that video, the high expectations of bands on social media, and their unexpected HBO attention. We began our conversation by talking about their latest line-up change.

The Key: Founding member Thanasi Paul left the band a few months ago, do you want to talk about what it’s been like moving on with the band since then?

Missy Dabice: It’s fine. I mean, it’s a new beginning. I think it’s more important to be honest with ourselves when we don’t want to do something anymore. It’s the same with any relationship, like if you’re not very fulfilled with it anymore, it’s best for everyone involved to move on, because it allows everyone to be happier and more creative. Yeah…he’s just ready to be a husband and a daddy.

TK: “Control” was the only song you had prepared before heading into the studio, the rest came about on the fly. You’ve said that you hadn’t really done songs like that before, where they were a little bit more spur of the moment. What was something that you really enjoyed out of that experience?

MD: It’s such a relief to not second guess yourself for like months on something and just allow the song to be what it is off the bat. You know, we’ve always been a band that has practiced songs for sometimes years before recording them. So, we’ve always been incredibly precious about that kind of timeline … that sometimes like a song has to evolve over time before it becomes its final form. And in this instance, where we had one prepared song, booked studio time with just the intent that we would go in there and hopefully write something, I feel like it allowed us to maybe feel like a healthy amount of pressure to be like, ‘We need to utilize this time that we have, and just let whatever comes out comes out.’ So we wrote “Perfect,” “Pigs Is Pigs,” and “To Lose You” within the first two days in the studio.

TK: Also, you are a very live band, and now you don’t have that opportunity to workshop anything in front of an audience. Did you find that freeing or maybe a little bit constricting in a good way to not have the chance to see what the vibe is from the audience before you wrote it?

MD: I think a little bit more freeing. Like, I think there’s something, I use this word with a grain of salt, there’s something slightly embarrassing about presenting a work before it’s really been done. Because a lot of the times it’s like we’re still workshopping. Kaleen [is] still trying out different drum fill ideas, I’m still trying out different lead line ideas, I’m trying out different melodies and lyrics. And I think there is something to be said for waiting to present that. But a lot of the reason why we did play songs that weren’t finished yet, for so long is because for a long time, we were really more of a touring band than an at home band. So we didn’t have practice anymore. Like we didn’t have that space to work on new songs. So being on the road was our space to work on them.

TK: As we’re seeing kind of early semblances of tours coming up in the fall and whatnot, do you think that when you eventually get back to touring, you’ll still be kind of workshopping those songs that you have on the new EP and maybe like tooling with them as you go?

MD: Yeah, it’s definitely possible that they might kind of take a slightly different shape, you know, after like a year of playing them on the road. Usually what happens in songs, though, once you start playing them loud is they just get incrementally faster and faster [laughs]

TK: For the “Control” music video, which you directed, I feel like you were really acting out a lot of the frustration that people are feeling right now. I wanted to ask about setting that up, the actual music video itself. What kind of regulations do you have to deal with to get the fire going? Where did you get the sword from? Where did you get the axe from?

MD: Well, all the props and the room itself was designed and found by Hanna Hamilton, who’s just a superstar in my eyes. Local Philly person who is a filmmaker, director, set designer, costume designer…she does it all, and we worked with her on the “Cream” music video. And when myself and Drew, the director of photography for “Control,” were talking about this kind of small world I wanted to build, it was really obvious, like, we have to talk to Hannah about making this. She just has such a great ability to elevate a vision. And so the battle axe was her own.

TK: Just had that lying around.

MD: Yeah, she really did [laughs]. Because when I started thinking, I was like, that “tired-wired” thing where I was like, oh, every artist has like a fucking sword nowadays. Like, swords are cool, my parents collected old weapons and instruments growing up, so like, I’ve always kind of had an interest and affinity for just medieval weapons and medieval instruments as well. But, I wanted a lot of different types of weapons. Like I wanted the sword the battle axe, the baseball bat, the razor blade. I tried to get a, I think it’s called a meteor hammer, which is like the spiked ball and chain that Gogo uses in the Kill Bill movies. I feel like that’s the reference…

TK: Like a flail, right?

MD: Yeah, it’s like a flail, but it’s a flail that’s on a long chain.

TK: Oh, okay. Yeah, I know what you’re talking about. Does it set on fire? Like it catches on fire, right?

MD: My idea definitely was to try to set it on fire. But I found that it’s actually quite hard to find a reasonably priced meteor hammer. And now I get, like, weekly eBay [emails], “Are you still interested in ancient meteor hammer?”

TK: Maybe someday that’ll come through for another music video.

MD: I hope so, I love weapons. I think, when they’re used not in a way to actually harm a person, I think there’s something very artistic about them. Like I love ‘Forged in Fire.’ And just the art form of building these instruments of war are interesting to me.

TK: I also wanted to bring up that music video, because you know, you’ve worked with Michel Zauner before. Both of you have kind of worked together on music videos, both of you are musicians who have pretty clear visions for what you want your music videos to look like. Have the two of you had discussions about directing or shared that insight with one another?

MD: Oh, yeah, we talk all the time about movies and directing. I mean, the real reason I got into directing was because of Michelle. Like I had approached her, because we’ve been friends for a very long time now, and I approached her to direct “Drunk II.” And she was like, “Well, what do you want to do?” And then I kind of like, went into this long [description]: “Okay, so like, we set the scene and I’m walking into the bar, and there’s like, a tunnel of love and all these things.” And then when I was done, she was like, “Marisa, you are a director.” Like, “What you just told me is everything that is a director’s job.” So she really pushed me to start doing it. You know, I was very nervous about it. But, yeah, it was just this incredible light she switched on in my head that the idea is what starts at all. And gathering the team to then make it real, and everyone sees the same vision, is what directing is.

TK: Was there any part of the job of directing that you really didn’t expect that you struggled with?

MD: What I’m so drawn to with directing is that it’s kind of like being in a band on acid in a way? Where like, a band is this like collaborative space where people share ideas and are trying to get to this place that only exists in the head. The song exists in your mind first and then you have to communicate with your bandmates, and everyone puts their individual talents to make it real. And directing is absolutely that. It’s like, you need to find people who can see the vision that you have without it being real first. And so, trusting your collaborators and getting to know them and their tastes and the individual talents that they bring to it, I think is like really what draws me to it. I really like working in groups, and I really like collaborating. I think that’s definitely, for me it’s where my best work comes from, when you’re the most open to allow other people into it.

TK: Yeah, that makes sense a lot. Especially with music videos, where there’s no dialogue, then you have to describe what this looks like, and how it aligns with the music. And you’re also somebody who wrote the music, so you have to kind of say, “Here’s how those two ideas match up.”

MD: It’s really fun. I mean, it’s also heartbreaking when you feel like you didn’t get it the way you want to.

TK: Was there a time that happened?

MD: The music video we just did for “Perfect.” I had a long talk with Michelle actually about this where I was like, “Have you ever made something and like, all you can see is everything you would have done differently?” And she’s like, “Yeah! That’s a huge part of it.” But I really like it, it was a very long edit process. You know, I feel like, a vision, it’s kind of like, editing is to videos that mixing is to a song. Like, the ideas are all there and then it comes alive in the mix. It comes alive in the edit. And then, this was just like one of the first videos where it’s kind of a short comedy movie based on Romy and Michele’s High School Reunion. And so it’s kind of like part-comedy, part-music-video. The song is a minute and 20 seconds. And so, it was ambitious to try to fit a loose narrative into such a short amount of space to begin with. So I’m kind of learning my lessons with that as well.

TK: Speaking of Michelle Zauner, the two of you also got a chance to work together consulting on the fictional band Androgynous for the HBO show Mare of Easttown. Since Zauner was helping with shaping their concert performance, did the both of you discuss what was needed for that? What elements of an MP show would need to be present in a fictional band?

MD: We didn’t really work together for the consultation for Mare of Easttown. We were unavailable to consult due to our touring schedule so when production asked if there was anyone I’d trust to recommend, the only person I thought of without hesitation was Michelle. She knows us, she’s toured with us, she knows how we all individually connect to our performances. Michelle did send us update videos of her working with the actors that were so sweet and surreal to watch. 

TK: Ever since the show started airing, you’ve once more run into comments about your band’s name. How are you handling all those weird social media interactions? Have you seen a lot of new fans coming from the show, learning you’re a real band?

MD: It’s cute that some people think that absolutely no one would ever name their band Mannequin Pussy and that’s why we must be a fake band. I’ve definitely noticed more people of the older generation sending me DMs saying they found out through the show and now “rocking out to us.” As for the people who don’t believe we exist – it seems we’ve managed to convert some of them. 

TK: You’ve talked about how the song “Perfect” was about how people are all trying to appear perfect on social media. And, if I understand it correctly, this one was one that was written during the pandemic, correct? Can you talk about that experience of being online and witnessing everything that’s happened from this past year? Especially as it’s not only that just we’ve been all on social media, but that it’s like there was during an election, during a pandemic, all sorts of crazy things happening, and we have to witness it from a strictly digital perspective. What was what was going through your mind while you’re writing this song?

MD: I just have felt so exhausted by the process of wanting to be close to other people and wanting to interact with other people and really miss that. And the only avenue that you’re able to do it is through your phone, and it doesn’t feel like real community, it doesn’t feel like real activism, it doesn’t feel real in a lot of ways. And, you know, I think especially for artists, you’re just so conditioned to this idea that you need to constantly be sharing aspects of your life.

And, you know, last year, there weren’t a lot of aspects of my life I really wanted to share with people. I was not in a good place mentally. I wasn’t really taking care of myself. And you know, I think that was an experience that a lot of people were happening was this fear from the pandemic going on. The grief feeling for all the people whose lives have been upended and, and people who are like losing their lives mixed with the election, mixed with all these things, and then at the same time, trying to present yourself as this very perfect together person. It was just like realizing this is the most time I’ve ever spent online and there’s still that pressure to really manicure your life and present it to people on a very palatable platter. Like, “Don’t I look so perfect? Isn’t everything so perfect?” And I’ve never felt less like that, last year.

TK: Yeah. And I think something it’s especially with musicians, it’s a unique beast. I feel like that must be very difficult, because your music can be fantastic, it can be great, but if you don’t have this perfect way of interacting on social media, you know, people are just gonna kind of skim over it a lot of times, and I feel like that’s something that a lot of musicians are struggling with.

MD: Yeah, I don’t think it’s within the nature of a lot of musicians I know to, in addition to the act of creating, selling yourself. I don’t think it’s something that comes natural to most people at all. I think people find themselves in a very uncomfortable situation, when you do have to present yourself as ‘please look at me, please be interested in what I’m doing, and please help me.’ You know, it’s the bullshit aspect of it all, but it is intrinsic, unfortunately, to the success of something.

Do you know XKCD? I really felt my life almost as this like XKCD comic where it was like maybe the X-axis would be like, Time on Social Media and the Y would be like, How Lonely I Am, and then it just goes up. And I kind of feel like that was part of it last year, too, was anytime I find myself using social media more and more, it usually just means I’m lonely for people.

TK: It’s trying to get that like that feeling of interaction that we’ve all been missing for the past year, but it’s also really alienating, especially when Kim Kardashian is like “We’re all in an island together! Don’t worry we’re all safe…”

MD: I feel like definitely that post really influenced “Perfect.” I think, like a lot of like Kardashian influencer life really influenced the song “Perfect.” Just thinking about that kind of narcissistic flavor. I definitely don’t think I’ve ever brought up the Kardashians in an interview before, but the whole idea of the manicured existence. TikTok was something that came into my life for the first time last year as well. Where you have these people literally dancing for your attention in these ways where they still look really good, everyone’s still made-up and looking a very particular way. But you know, I think I’m also guilty of like, the “Perfect” effect, wanting to perform for attention.

TK: What is something that you miss about touring?

MD: I really miss the group screams. That was something that we did on our headlining tour, that was really great. Like, I think there was a night that we were kind of talking about, like, what brings someone to Mannequin Pussy show? And something that I really love about our band, and like, I’ve been the opening band more times than I can count for bands, and something I’ve noticed about most audiences is that they tend to kind of look exactly the same, depending on who you’re playing for. Whether that’s like, you know, all white men who dress a particular way, or like, all like a subculture kind of thing.

What I love about Mannequin Pussy is that we really don’t have what I would say, an average fan. There’s so many different people there. From like, the rock dads to like, young queer kids. And it’s really cool to see all these different people in the room together and kind of have this realization that everyone’s really seeking the same thing, which is this cathartic outlet to really enjoy music, feel completely yourself, and feel safe in an environment. And I think everyone who ends up at one of our shows has that same bubble of sadness and anger and just is looking for a place to get it out in a healthy way. And like, anyone who likes our band probably likes screaming in some ways, so we started doing these, like group screams, where we had the entire audience scream together. And, listening to a room of like 600 people scream together, is really a magical feeling that just gets it out. And we had a lot of people who came up to us after that just like, “Thank you, I didn’t realize how much I needed to scream.” And I think especially after last year, we’re really gonna need that.

Mannequin Pussy’s Perfect EP is out now via Epitaph Records, and can be ordered here. Mannequin Pussy will headline Phantom Power in Millersville, PA with Kississippi opening, and tickets are on sale today; they’ll also open for Japanese Breakfast’s three-night stand at Union Transfer. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.