Season 1 Episode 4 – Shattering Stereotypes: The Road to Becoming The Kentucky Gentlemen

The harmonizing familial duo, The Kentucky Gentlemen, have been nearly inseparable since birth. Hailing from a small town in Kentucky, twins Brandon (he/him) and Derek Campbell (he/him) have spent much of their lives being boxed in by inaccurate assumptions and stereotypes. After moving to Nashville, the brothers were forced to face two of their biggest obstacles: being black and gay in a historically cut-throat and exclusive scene. But through their perseverance and with the support of their community, the brothers learned to embrace what set them apart from other artists. After working tirelessly for nearly a decade, the Kentucky Gentlemen now have a sound all their own. (See full episode one transcript below.)

More about The Kentucky Gentlemen

EPISODE FOUR TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] HOST: Derek and Brandon Campbell are identical twin brothers. They’ve been inseparable for nearly their entire lives. Not only were they born together, but they sang in church choir together, played football together, took dance classes together, the list goes on. 

But then, they decided to head to different colleges after finishing high school. 

[00:00:16] Brandon Campbell: as twins you also, like, you, your whole life gets spent like putting, they put you in one box.

[00:00:21] HOST: That’s Brandon.

[00:00:22] Brandon Campbell: And if you’re not the same, like, we were literally just asked the other day was like, why is this hair a little darker than yours? . So it was very nice for us to be able to go [00:00:30] away from each other, actually get our own personalities and our own lives a little bit and realize like what we actually liked as Brandon and what we actually liked as Derrick.

[00:00:39] HOST: They say this time apart was valuable, but after one year they realized…

[00:00:42] Derek Campbell: we weren’t happy and we didn’t like really where we were and what was, what was going on in our lives. 

[00:00:47] HOST: That’s Derek. He says he and their Mom picked up Brandon from his dorm room in Chicago after both brothers decided to drop out of college. On the long car ride back home they talked about what was next. 

[00:00:54] Derek Campbell: believe that was a pivotal moment, I think cuz we were kind of, it was kind of emotional. Like [00:01:00] this didn’t work out. Like we think, we thought this exact path was our dreams. And uh, honestly, we just, in that car ride, we were like, let’s just find a solution to these feelings we’re feeling.

I was like, maybe y’all go to New York and dance. And he was like, I’ll just go, I’ll go to LA and I’ll sing. 

[00:01:14] HOST: Brandon says that they didn’t reach any conclusions during that car trip.

[00:01:17] Brandon Campbell: And then our mom was like, no matter what, y’all always be my Kentucky gentlemen. And that’s when we got the name of the Kentucky gentleman. That same car ride. Yeah, same car ride. 

[00:01:25] HOST: The Campbell twins had always enjoyed singing together and had even tried their hand at writing a few songs, but their mom sealed their fate to become performers and songwriters when she gave them that band name: The Kentucky Gentlemen. 

They regrouped at home – and figured out their next steps together.

[00:01:40] Derek Campbell: Something sparked in us and we were like, let’s just save up for a couple months and go down, down to Nashville and do this thing. 

HOST: They knew it wouldn’t be easy becoming America’s next country stars, but they had to try.

[00:04:11] Brandon Campbell: the obvious, obvious obstacles of being in this genre and being black and being gay, like we’ve. Hit a lot of hard stops, but it’s just taught us that being authentic, you’re gonna, you’re gonna hit those hard stops. You keep going. Here comes the rainbow and here we are with these.

 (Intro to podcast) 

[00:04:29] HOST: You’re listening to Season 1 of the Artist to Watch podcast, featuring the Black Opry Residency. I’m John Morrison. Over the course of five episodes you’ll hear the stories of Black artists trying to make it in the world of country and Americana music. This is episode four featuring Derek and Brandon Campbell, better known as The Kentucky Gentlemen.

If you haven’t heard the first three episodes yet, what are you waiting for? They tell the stories of Tylar Bryant, Samantha Rise, and Grace Givertz.

 (Nashville music) 

[00:01:48] HOST: The Kentucky Gentlemen were 19 when they decided to move to Nashville to seek fame and fortune making country music together. This was back in 2013.

[00:01:56] Brandon Campbell: We ended up getting like two meetings from somewhere and the [00:02:00] question that kept coming up was like, how many songs have you written?

[00:02:02] HOST: This is Brandon.

[00:02:03] Brandon Campbell: And every time we said whatever number, it was never enough. And so I was like, we’re just gonna write a song every single day. So at the end of this year, when we say three hundred and sixty five, five, um, They can’t say that’s not enough. Like, that’s a lot of songs. 

[00:02:19] HOST: That’s right. They wrote one song per day for an entire year just so they could show the Nashville music industry bigwigs that they are the real deal. 

[00:02:26] Brandon Campbell: And it actually got, did get a lot of the bad ones out of the way. Like we didn’t, like [00:02:30] the minute we started writing the song halfway through, like, is this bad? Maybe let’s not fit. Let’s move on to the next 

[00:02:36] Derek Campbell: Helped our just brains in general just get used 

[00:02:39] Brandon Campbell: to because, and Nashville, like they expect you to write every single day or at least several times a week. And it was really hard for us at first , but we had to like force ourselves to sit down and write a song. in this one bedroom apartment every day. 

[00:02:53] HOST: The Campbell Brothers are disarmingly charming and very ambitious. They say they’ve never been afraid to walk up to anyone in the music biz and just start talking.

[00:03:17] Brandon Campbell: To this day, I still do it, but like there’s music row.com and I, every day I study these people’s faces and names so that I can. Like, when I see them out, I know who they are. Like we spend hours, like seeing who these people [00:03:30] manage, what event are they gonna be at, where’s their artist playing? And we would just show up and people would be shocked that these 19 year old kids walked up and knew these people’s positions at their label, first and last name, who they work with. And people were so impressed by that. 

[00:03:44] HOST: The Kentucky Gentlemen became such regular fixtures on the Nashville scene, that it got to the point where they’d go out and people would say, 

[00:03:48] Derek Campbell: of course you’re here, man. Like, that’s what, and so, uh, I think, I think showing up was just kind of what our main, what we knew we had to do. 

[00:03:58] Brandon Campbell: Yeah. We knew we had to show up.

[00:03:59] HOST: The Kentucky Gentlemen have been showing up for a decade now and doing whatever it takes to get their music out there to country music audiences. They see the Black Opry Residency as a chance to move to the next level through refining their songwriting and their brand.

(music shift?)

[00:04:53] Holly G: the Kentucky gentlemen are actually like some of, one of the. Artists that I found, um, when I first started [00:05:00] Black Opry,

[00:05:00] HOST: That’s Holly G, the founder of the Black Opry.

[00:05:03] Holly G: and I remember when I found them, I kind of thought to myself like, there’s no way I’ll ever be able to get them on a show, because they’ve gotta be like on the break of, you know, just hitting it big. Mm-hmm. Um, and I was very, very surprised to see that they have not gotten the attention they deserve. They are some of the most entertaining people I have ever met. 

[00:05:28] HOST: Holly and the Black Opry  had an opportunity to curate a stage at the Newport Folk Festival in 2022. Even though the Kentucky Gentlemen’s sound is less folk, more pop country, she says she knew that they would win over audiences.  

[00:05:39] Holly G: I have a belief that a lot of people’s perception of music is based on labels that don’t accurately describe the music. And so I was like, I know if I take them. People are gonna love them. And we did soundcheck and they got a standing ovation from a twenty second soundcheck.

 (clip from Newport Folk Festival) 

[00:05:56] Holly G: And when they walked off the stage, they literally had to get [00:06:00] people help to help them move through the crowd because people were like grabbing on their clothes and trying to get pictures with them. People fell in love with them. Everybody falls in love with them. Yeah. They’re so charming just as guys. But then when you hear them sing Yeah. And you realize like how talented they are, it’s like they’re perfect. 

[00:06:15] Rissi Palmer: The Kentucky gentleman. Aside from being Ador. Sorry, because they are, they are adorable and they’re, they’re super sweet.

[00:06:22] HOST: This is songwriter Rissi Palmer. She’s one of the original supporters of the Black Opry.

[00:06:26] Rissi Palmer: I’ve never seen anything like them, and that’s a good [00:06:30] thing. Like that’s a great thing. And I, I think that they are on the verge of something really special 

HOST: She says the Kentucky Gentlemen just need a little more polish and some good advice…

Rissi Palmer: cuz everybody needs it. All new artists need it. Some older artists need it, shoot, I need it. And I’m 20 years in. Mm-hmm. Just some really good advice mm-hmm. On direction and that sort of thing. And they’re really on, [00:07:00] on the verge of, of greatness of good things. 

 (KY Gentlemen Bio) 

[00:07:02] HOST: Brandon and Derek were born in Lexington, Kentucky and grew up just over 10 miles away in Versailles.

[00:07:07] Derek Campbell: Most people miss, say Versailles when they first see it, but, but we’re country folks from

[00:07:11] Brandon Campbell: kentucky, so it’s pronounced Ver-sailles

[00:07:14] HOST: They have a huge family there. Their Dad and his 13 siblings all grew up in town and the Campbell brothers say they have over one hundred cousins.

[00:07:21] Derek Campbell: Family kind of made, made the town what it is for you and your experience. And so, um, we spent a whole lot of time with family and [00:07:30] our parents kept us pre pretty busy our entire lives.

[00:07:33] HOST: The twins spent most of their youth playing sports. And in high school they were both stars on the football team. It was kind of a Friday Night Lights situation.

[00:07:40] Derek Campbell: Most of high school was focused on football, kind of became our main, main sport. Um, I ended up then we kind of were like, we did not want to play football, like in college or any of that scholarship football scholarships and offers are rolling in.

[00:07:55] HOST: Derek told his coach that he wasn’t interested in a football scholarship. He was only considering college scholarships for ballet dancing.

[00:07:59] Derek Campbell: [00:08:00] Like, I do not care about my stats. Like, it was a whole, it was so, such a dramatic small town kind of thing where like, oh, like the football players that like are are pretty, are like good. Like if they don’t go to college for it, like they’re ruining their lives. Like how dare they? 

[00:08:16] HOST: Although the towns people gossiped about the Campbell brothers throwing away their football careers, Brandon and Derek say their parents supported them no matter what they wanted to do.

[00:08:24] Brandon Campbell: We’d leave football practice early and they would drop us off at ballet on the way home. And so, and they never [00:08:30] flinched, they never did us, did whatever we, they thought our hearts wanted and we were very lucky to that they were like that.

[00:08:36] HOST: The small town gossip wasn’t the only obstacle the twins needed to navigate.

[00:08:39] Brandon Campbell: If someone had the same skin color as us, there was a 98% chance that we were actually related to them. So it was like, No, it was not diverse at all. It was, 

[00:08:50] Derek Campbell: I think your high school class. Um, there were mayb-, I think there were eight black kids, um, eight out of about 300.

[00:08:58] HOST: They say growing up in Versailles [00:09:00] taught them how to play the cards they were dealt.

[00:09:01] Derek Campbell: And it’s what are you gonna do about it? Yeah. How are you gonna handle it? 

[00:09:06] Brandon Campbell: I think that it’s, once again, small town, they’re not used to people going out and pursuing music and then so they, especially. They didn’t think like the two out of eight black people in the class were gonna go do country music. So, but definitely like, they’ve been supportive on the journey as well, so that’s always been great too.

 (scene shift // scoring ?) 

[00:09:25] Kristen Kurtis: I have the great pleasure of welcoming some of our March artists to watch part of the Black [00:09:30] Opry Residency program that’s going on in Philly right now to the studio. Welcome the Kentucky gentleman. Hello, 

[00:09:36] The Kentucky Gentlemen: hello, hello. 

[00:09:37] Kristen Kurtis: Oh my goodness. I’ve got like stereo sound in my ears right now.

Brandon and Derek Campbell, twin Brothers who’s who. I’m Derek. Okay. I’m Brandon. And you’re Brandon. Uh, so Derek, you’ve got a nose ring on the right side. Yes. And you’ve got on the left. On the left. So this is when you come to the showcase. Tomorrow night. This is how you can tell. 

[00:09:55] The Kentucky Gentlemen: Stare at my nose. 

[00:09:58] HOST: During the Black Opry residents’ time in Philadelphia, each artist made an appearance on WXPN’s Morning Show with Kristen Kurtis.

[00:10:05] Brandon Campbell: Yeah. I mean, we always were like, I feel like we were meant to be Disney child stars, and, and so now we get to go on stage and live out what we did in our bedroom every, every night.

So that’s great. 

[00:10:16] Kristen Kurtis: Oh my gosh. I did that too. I made my sister like put on a movie. Absolutely. I’m gonna play this role. Yeah. For sure the song I 

[00:10:24] The Kentucky Gentlemen: wanted. Right. We were Chee Girls, we 

[00:10:25] Derek Campbell: Cheetah 

[00:10:26] Kristen Kurtis: Girls. Yes. I love it so much. Oh my goodness. What were some of [00:10:30] your other influences? We know Disney as you grew up. Who were some of the other artists that spoke to you?

[00:10:34] Derek Campbell: Nineties country and nineties, r and b. It’s our entire life. Mm-hmm. Like it’s just what was always playing in the background. Um, that’s exactly why our music sounds the way it sounds. Yeah. From 

[00:10:43] Brandon Campbell: like the Chicks to George Strait all the way to What’s Up Philly Voids to Men. I mean, we love, like, all that is just infused into what we are and what our music is today.

 (fade under…) 

[00:10:54] HOST: When The Kentucky Gentlemen moved to Nashville back in 2013, they say it was the peak of “Bro Country”.

 (Post clip of Florida Georgia Line’s “Cruise”) 

[00:10:59] Brandon Campbell: We moved to [00:11:00] town and “Cruise” was number one, right? 

[00:11:02] HOST: ” Cruise” is this song by the band Florida Georgia Line.

[00:11:04] Brandon Campbell: So like, basically half our town in Nashville was like trying to figure out a balance of, cuz that whole time they didn’t want to hear all that other stuff. Like maybe one song would get introduced, some country 

[00:11:17] Derek Campbell: radio in between that had a little more, uh, like substance to it. Substance. Mm-hmm.

[00:11:22] HOST: They said finding the right collaborators became a matter of identifying writers who were willing to not just chase what was trendy

[00:11:28] Derek Campbell: . And sometimes [00:11:30] chase what’s more, um, just dive into a story and dive into those other things. And, um, some things that are more every day.

[00:11:38] HOST: Professional songwriters often get together at writing retreats to crank out a bunch of new songs at once. A few years ago, The Gentlemen organized an in-town writing retreat with some trusted songwriting partners. Derek said veteran musician Chris Sly is one of their go-to collaborators.

[00:11:52] Derek Campbell: So like every day we showed up to, um, our buddy Chris Slys house and we all, we just, we wrote like three, three [00:12:00] or four songs a day. Um, and some, some he had tracks if we wanted to work with the track. And he would pitch to us. 

[00:12:05] HOST: All those songs you hear on the radio? Most of them go through a process like this. Writing, workshopping, pitching…

[00:12:14] Derek Campbell: And, right before we left that first day, he was like, oh, I’ve got this, um, I’ve got this song. And it’s already like, been worked with a little bit. Like, just let us, let me know, like if you’re feeling it because we’ve been writing this sexy stuff all day. Like this is kind, this is kind of hot. And so he [00:12:30] played it and it was whatever you’re up for. 

 (Post Kentucky Gentlemen – Whatever You’re Up For) 

[00:12:32] Derek Campbell: And we were like, oh, like this is great. And to be, I’m going to be honest, there is Yeah, the lyrics. Originally I was so misogynistic in my opinion. Yeah. It was just, it was just so like, girl, I’m a, I 

[00:12:46] Brandon Campbell: was like, this is very aggressive and I look everything except the aggressive, misogynistic things.

So let’s bring it to, I know the other writers on here. I know y’all. Let’s bring it to 2021 where we don’t talk like that [00:13:00] and make it a 

[00:13:01] Derek Campbell: better, make it a bop. Make it a bop. We made it a bop. 

 (play more of “Whatever You’re Up For”) 

[00:13:03] Derek Campbell: What it’s been called, like an all-inclusive bop, which is funny because that wasn’t what what exactly was on our mind, but from our, from our changes.

Yeah. It’s what made it, so we kind of just rewrote the verses and whatnot and I mean, granted, it’s still saying like, Hey, boy, let me, let me take my pants off, or whatever. But it’s still like, but it’s like, it’s fun and it’s, it’s respectful, [laughter] it’s respectful. 

[00:13:23] HOST: This period of time around 2021 when they wrote songs like “Whatever You’re Up For” was a real breakthrough for the Kentucky Gentlemen. They realized that being as authentic to themselves as possible was the only way forward in their careers. 

[00:13:34] Derek Campbell: Most of our journey up until the last two or three years was a lot of we’re just like, you, like, give us an opportunity because like we just convince people that we’re just like them. 

[00:13:44] HOST: After writing a song a day for a year, furiously networking with as many people as possible, and working so hard for nearly a decade they learned that they needed to be less like others and be more in our faces about exactly who they are.

[00:13:55] Brandon Campbell: I feel like the music that we have out now was like the first music [00:14:00] that we took full control. Like when we walked into a room, we wanted people to like, Instead of trying to make our sound whatever they thought it should be, we walked in the room, we’re like, Hey, this is what we wanna write. This is what we’re doing, this is what we’re doing. Would you like to be a part of it? And if you don’t get the image of it, then we can just politely all just go get drinks and 

[00:14:22] Derek Campbell: and the fact that we’ve leaned in, that we learned and decided to embrace those things, I think that’s helped us take all ev everything head [00:14:30] on.

And it made us made the big things even better because it’s like, and look what being a hundred percent ourselves and, and everyone’s face is about being ourselves. Where it’s got, look where it’s gotten us, look where it’s got, and it can only like that is when things, that’s when all of a sudden things were happening for us.

 (scene shift to Philly/BOR residency) 

[00:14:47] HOST: During the Black Opry Residency week in Philadelphia, the artists had workshops with experts on branding, building the right team, and navigating the music industry.

Here, the five residency artists are sitting down with Rissi Palmer to talk about the ins and outs of songwriting. The Kentucky Gentlemen confided in Rissi their struggle working with some songwriters in Nashville.

[00:15:05] Brandon Campbell: I was just wondering like in terms of bean in rooms and. People are always telling what we should do, shouldn’t do, and how to kind of like how 

[00:15:13] Rissi Palmer: to navigate the co-write. Yeah. So I don’t ever go into a room with anybody. Um, that’s hard. Like, I, I hear what you’re saying cuz that, that is hard because you, on one hand, it’s great to have somebody that’s already got ready made stuff, but then they’ve already got ready made stuff, right? [00:15:30] Mm-hmm. Um, I don’t ever go into a room unless I have an idea.

Mm-hmm. I, I just, I, for me, I find that when we’re just sitting here like, so Tyler, tell me about growing up and like that kinda thing. You go back and forth, like, that’s two hours that we’ll never get back of our lives. That we’re just sitting, like, we can do that after hours with some beer. 

HOST: Rissi offered them some practical advice… 

Rissi Palmer: so my suggestion to y’all is that you two sit down. Do you believe in vision boards? Yes. I make musical vision boards. And so every album has a musical vision board. Yeah. And I pick, um, I make playlists of like, I like this, I like this person.

I like the way they [00:16:30] produce this. I like the way this vocal sounds. I like this instrumentation. Sit down and build your musical vision board of what it is that you want your music to sound like. Like what is the Kentucky gentleman like? What do you have to say musically? What do you sound like musically?

And then you, y’all sit down and like write out in a little notebook or something, or in your phones. [00:17:00] This is mine. It’s raggedy hell. And there are songs about Doritos in it. Cause I write with kids sometimes, but like I have this little book and these are just like little song ideas. And like, so you two sit and do that. And then. When you go, it’ll sometimes help to make these things a little bit easier. So then you’re like, okay, actually we were thinking that. And then you have like 50 ideas Yeah. That are [00:17:30] homegrown, that are from y’all and that means something to you as opposed to just like, we’re gonna write a song about a truck in here. Like, you know what I mean? 

[00:17:39] HOST: The advice Rissi offered affirmed the Campbell’s approach. They feel more committed than ever to pulling song ideas from their lived experiences.

 (scene shift to WCL) 

[00:17:45] HOST: Later in the week on stage at World Cafe Live, the Kentucky Gentlemen shared a new song.

[00:17:50] Derek Campbell: So we are just, um, have been on this journey of finding what happiness looks like for us, and this song is about that.[00:18:00] 

I remember that needle drop in daddy’s vinyl Dolly. Pardon? Where that damn thing go? Disappeared into the speakers. Somehow it was easier than to hear him screaming, shout [00:18:30] you, leave, take care of me. That’s why nothing between me and my dreams I’m doing in my, find me on the highway, not looking me. [00:19:00] I’m breaking.

[00:19:14] HOST: The Kentucky Gentlemen say the new songs they’re writing are their most personal yet. And Brandon says bringing more and more of their own lives into the songs is making them even more country. 

[00:19:22] Brandon Campbell: Country music reflects country people and I feel like they. Reflects us like delivering [00:19:30] their truth. They don’t care what you think or how they are is how they are. Who they are is who they are. And I think that country music is freedom and that’s what country music makes. Most people who like country music feel like they’re free. Like they have like three minutes and seven seconds of freedom of their favorite song and their favorite artists. And to me that country music is freedom.

[00:19:49] Derek Campbell: There’s this romanticizing the way that you live your life like it’s a days hard work, but we love it wouldn’t have any other way that kind of thing. Like [00:20:00] everything is just, oh, you take every, you don’t take a lot of things for granted. These are your circumstances. This is who your family and your friends are. And you know, I love the how It’s kind of around where like we accept that and we love them for that. And we, we love things as, as they are.

And we make the best of them if we can, if we can, if we can’t make them better. 

 (music from BOR Showcase up and out) 

[00:20:23] Derek Campbell: we actually went back and had a hometown show last summer. And I mean, it was this festival that had always been [00:20:30] like, um, like in the town,

[00:20:32] HOST: Like in a Hallmark movie or a country song, the Campbell twins who were once mocked for passing up football scholarships made a triumphant return to their hometown.

 (sound from Versailles homecoming show) 

[00:20:40] Brandon Campbell: There were thousands of people out there and they were all there. The people were singing our songs. So I honestly, their support meant the absolute world to us.

It was wild. Cause it was actually the same, the same day that morning we got a call from Holly, um, and she was like, I don’t know what y’all are doing tonight, but Alicia Keys called and she [00:21:00] wants Black Opry artists to come on stage with her and send name there. And I’m like, we’re headed outta town cause we have a hometown show.

And everybody’s like, are you crazy? And I’m like, I’m sorry, I, I have to be loyal to my hometown. So Alicia, please hit me up again. It’s up again. I, it still hurts my heart a little bit, but I was, it was a great show. It was, it was very like, fulfilling, like, to be at home and like, cause we haven’t got to play at home for a long time. We’ve just been in Nashville and out on the road. So it was really great show. And once again, Alicia hit [00:21:30] me up again. That would be great

 (music up and out)

(The Kentucky Gentlemen – “Love Language”)

[00:21:31] HOST: In the next episode of the Artist to Watch podcast, we’re going to introduce you to the fifth and final Black Opry Resident: Denitia.

Denitia: You know, like my dad was always walking around in like a cowboy hat and like a big belt buckle. And mom was wearing the Rocky Mountain jeans. That’s just, that was just the vibes. Like that was hip, you know? So it’s like, it’s totally at the core of what is cool to me and what is like good music.

[00:21:38] HOST: And now that we know a little about what it takes to write a great song… can you get it on the radio?

Holly G: There are two factors to why, uh, artists of color not getting played on radio. One of ’em is money. It takes a lot of money and a lot of resources to pour into, to run a successful radio campaign. And the other side of it is just, it’s a old good old boys club. Like they. Play and respect the opinions of the people that they know. And they have a very small circle of mostly straight white men that they’ve been relying on for the past however many years, um, to keep their programming going. And that’s what they go to and that’s what they know and they don’t wanna move outside of that.

[00:21:42] HOST: We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Artist to Watch podcast. For more information about the Black Opry Residency, visit X – P – N dot O – R – G.

The Artist to Watch podcast is produced by WXPN, member-supported radio from the University of Pennsylvania, in partnership with Rowhome Productions.

WXPN’s Executive [00:22:00] Producers are Roger LaMay and Bruce Warren.

The Executive Producers for Rowhome Productions are Alex Lewis and John Myers.

This episode was written by Alex Lewis with help from me, John Morrison.

Final audio mixing and mastering for Rowhome Productions by Justin Berger.

Special thanks to Holly G and Rissi (REE-see) Palmer.

The Black Opry Residency has been supported by The Pew Center for Arts & Heritage.

The Artist to Watch podcast is distributed by PRX — the Public Radio Exchange. 

If you enjoy being the first to discover up-and-coming talent, be sure [00:22:30] to go to the Artist to Watch show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe by clicking “follow” so that you never miss an episode. While you’re there, please leave us a review and share an episode with a friend. 

Thanks for listening.

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